“If you’ve looked at computers, they look like garbage,” Steve Jobs said to a group in Aspen, Colorado, at the 1983 International Design Conference. Jobs built the world’s wealthiest corporation making computers look great alongside Jony Ive, Apple’s outgoing chief design officer. Jobs and Ive took inspiration from Dieter Rams, the legendary industrial designer renowned for functional and simple consumer products.
Some of Rams’ designs for Braun found direct analogues in Ive’s Apple work. Ive has written and spoken about Rams numerous times. In the introduction to the coffee table book “Dieter Rams: As Little Design as Possible,” Ive shares his childhood memories of the MPZ 2 Citromatic juicer his parents bought. The Braun juicer exemplifies what Ive admires most about Rams’ work: useful, accessible products, beautifully made but produced at high volumes.
Ive succeeded at building on the concepts he celebrated in Rams’ work at a vastly greater scale than anything Braun ever produced. The iPod, the iPhone, the MacBook Air, the physical Apple Store, even the iconic packaging of Apple products—these products changed how we view and use their categories, or created new categories, and will be with us a long time. And Apple has made a lot of them—they’ve stamped out over one billion iPhones to date, with a current production rate north of 600,000 per day.
Rams loves durable products that are environmentally friendly. That’s one of his 10 principles for good design: “Design makes an important contribution to the preservation of the environment.” But Ive has never publicly discussed the dissonance between his inspiration and Apple’s disposable, glued-together products. For years, Apple has openly combated green standards that would make products easier to repair and recycle, stating that they need “complete design flexibility” no matter the impact on the environment.
Gary Hustwit, the documentarian behind the design-focused films Objectified and Rams, understands Dieter Rams’ conflicted views on Apple’s products better than many alive. “He doesn’t feel like he’s responsible [for consumerism], but I think he definitely feels like he had a role in getting to where we are now.
“I think he looks at our modern world of throwaway products and hyper-consumerism in horror, really,” Hustwit told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. “They were trying to make honest products that would last a lifetime.”
It’s a shame that Ive is leaving Apple without reconciling this. His iPod started the practice of gluing in batteries, a technique that initially brought scorn but has since become the industry norm. AirPods channel much of Rams’ design aesthetic, except they have a built-in death clock and stop working after a couple years. The last seven years of Apple laptop designs have pushed the envelope of thinness, sacrificing upgradeability, serviceability, external ports, and usable keyboards along the way.
Nobody, to our knowledge, has gotten Ive to explain how gluing batteries into products is useful and respectful to the buyer. Ive only speaks with the media occasionally, in highly controlled settings. We’ve read about Ive’s enthusiasm for recycled aluminum (or alu-min-i-um), but not his explanation of the utterly disposable nature of AirPods.
It’s high time for a change
Apple has the best designers and engineers in the world, and they are capable of maintaining Ive’s high design standards while crafting products that stand the test of time. They’re capable of making keyboards that work reliably—they’ve done it before! Repairability isn’t diametrically opposed to progress. Apple has the skill and dedication to innovation to accomplish both.
Part of what is so frustrating when taking apart the current MacBook and accessories like the AirPods is that we know how good Apple can be when they focus on serviceability. The iPhone is the highest scoring flagship phone on our chart right now, and it’s well deserved. The fundamental repairability challenge with smartphones is making the display and the battery, the parts most likely to break and wear out, easily removable. It took Apple many generations, but they nailed it with the iPhone 6 and haven’t looked back since. No Android phone design has managed to replicate the iPhone’s ease of service for these critical components.
Two of Rams’ other principles point to the things we most want to see happen in a post-Ive Apple: “Good design emphasises the usefulness of a product whilst disregarding anything that could possibly detract from it,” and “Care and accuracy in the design process show respect towards the user.” Those of us living the dongle life, or wondering what the TouchBar is really for, have a thing or two to say about respect and usefulness.
It’s time for Apple to refocus on all of the aspects of good design. Ive’s influence has brought us more than a billion beautifully made, accessible products. But beautiful has come at the cost of usefulness, durability, respect for the user’s resourcefulness, and the environment. There are Braun juicers and razors and furniture from Rams’ time still usable today, but we won’t be able to say the same in twenty years about today’s MacBooks or AirPods. That’s a shame. Apple can do better.
54 Comments
I know you have your own agenda with regards to this, but you make a good point nonetheless. It’s ironic that Ive has flown so brazenly in the face of one of his biggest sources of inspiration.
Here’s to a more repairable future.
Ben Oliver - Reply
Did you really had to ruin this decent article mentioning the cheesy ‘dongle life’ meme?
If a desktop machine suits your needs but you went for a laptop all you did is a poor choice, without mentioning they sell a dock station with all the ports you may need, for those who don't get that a laptop is engineered to operate free from cables - except for the power plug and occasional data offloading.
Doctor Apple - Reply
Total strawman argument. The sole purpose is to be portable and usable on the move. Nothing to do with wires. I have a set of v high end sony noise cancelling headphones with amazing battery life. Sometimes they run out while I'm out, because I'm not some loser who obsesses over charging the million things in my life. I just plug them in to the audio jack on my beautiful xps and continue as though nothing has happened. Clearly superior to the alternative, of just no longer having any audio.
hfhdhdh -
One challenge that I’ve had with dongles is that they’re another point of failure. I’ve had several headphone jack adapters fail on me—they’re just not build as reliably as the original headphone jack was.
Kyle Wiens -
I agree with Kyle Wiens, dongle is just another point of failure. Not to mention, for its price, Apple laptops have the worst-value chargers. Those things have the most fragile wires I have ever encountered.
If you need more objective proof-backed discussion on how poorly designed Apple products are, check Louis Rossmann or Linus YouTube channels.
Chickee -
It’s not a meme.
I don’t particularly want to deal with having to find the appropriate cable at any time to make sure it goes in a bag with me if I’m taking my machine to go do something remotely, and besides in previous iterations of MacBook I never had to choose. My 2011 MBP for instance, which was my daily driver until it finally died recently, was outstanding in this regard.
its thicker formfactor meant it was very serviceable, upgrades were simple, it may have suffered the GPU failure that most of them did (twice, once recalled), but it outlived a good many IBM compatible machines that came in alongside it — and it had excellent battery life despite its power hungry hardware, and all the ports I could ask for if I needed them. Yet its body was round edged and it fit in my bags nicely.
The new MBP? I need a dongle for just about anything, and while you may say “Oh but if you need cables you should have a desktop!”, why should I need a dongle for something as simple and universal as a bloody USB key?
Neal Pallotta -
Designing the MacBook AIR to run without cables is a worthy goal. Designing a MacBook PRO to run without cables is not a proper goal.
My 2013 MacBook Pro includes Magsafe, Ethernet, Firewire, Thunderbolt, USB, SDXC, and audio ports - ALL of which I use regularly as I move rapidly through a variety of network and office environments each day. Also, I can EASILY swap out an SSD, or a battery, or add RAM whenever needed. All of which has been done at least once.
As a PRO user, Apple has TOTALLY FAILED to meet my needs with their poorly engineered, inflexible, newest MacBook Pros.
These laptops are actually HOSTILE to my ongoing professional needs.
Matt Edger -
Beside the fact there’s nothing objective in Rossmann or LinusTrashTips opinions. They are both PC/gaming guys with very little understanding of the Apple world, which is not exclusively made of hardware specifications.
It's simple: if the lack of an analog audio port is a deal breaker for you, stop whining and go buy a crappy HP, Asus, Acer, [any other brand] notebook. Maybe you still love your keyboard and wired mouse? Perfect, get a generic PC and enjoy your cables mess, and don't bother who wants a different solution.
Again, I don't see ONE valid situation where you need to plug 2-3 cables to your MacBook at the same time. And if that situation happens often, sorry to tell you and stating the obvious: a laptop is not a 100% desktop replacement and shouldn't have the power cord in all the time.
You have bought the wrong machine for your needs.
Doctor Apple -
“very little understanding of the Apple world”
Rossman more or less exclusively repairs Mac laptops. He has a pretty good understanding of their design limitations, hardware limitations right down to an intricate level.
Charlie Nancarrow -
The article says “The iPhone is the highest scoring flagship phone on our chart right now.” Is that an error? When sorting the phones by repairability, the first iPhone is at position 23, with Samsung, LG, Blackberry, Nexus and Xiaomi all having devices with a higher score…
stragu - Reply
The key point here is probably “flagship”, whereby they most likely mean current flagships (a flagship of years past is no longer a flagship right now, is it?). And if you only take phones of 2019 and 2018 into consideration, the only phones above the iPhone XR are the Pixel 3a and Pixel 3a XL, who aren’t flagship phones, so the statement is true.
Tobias Dötzer -
Kyle: It’s apt that you bring up Rams’s forward-looking principles of good design in this context, yet I wonder how a product like your own new smartphone case offering fits in with that sort of reasoning. How is yet another plastics product like the Insight case supposed to be eco-friendly? Have you explored alternative, biodegradeable or at least recycled materials during the development process of your own smartphone case? What’s the life cycle footprint of this new protector compared to others made from compostable materials? I can’t find any info on the materials / printing inks used in its production on the iFixit website.
Justin Creed - Reply
Hey iFixIt … just shut the f*** up already. It’s not like YOU are making any of the devices that I use day in and day out, in both my professional and personal life. You are just a used hardware salesmen .. who harps endlessly on repairability, but you do not have A SINGLE PIECE OF FUNCTIONING KNOWLEDGE .. on how to make devices that I actually want to buy. Like any critic, you get to shoot your mouth off and never .. ever .. have to back anything up. If you are so certain you know what people really want .. why aren’t you making smart phones, and laptops, and desktops?
Eric - Reply
Why do you have to be such an @$$. What hardware products have you brought to market? And yes, people DO CARE about repairability. I love my A101 MacBook….that I bought 5 years ago, and have upgraded and repaired (SSD, RAM, battery, trackpad) a few times since then. I'm not going to spend $1500+ on a machine that has to go in the bin 2 years later.
Christian Elzey -
iFixit gets plenty of business documenting how to REPAIR faulty products put out by Apple and others. They are in the diagnostic, analysis, and repair business.
William Vaughan -
I could only wish there were more business like iFixit. My dad used to repair everything at home. We had an RCA TV set that we bought used on a garage sale and lasted 25+ years, it is still going! This is a responsible mindset for our planet. In some countries is done out of necessity, in others because they just know better. Repair, reuse, recycle!!!
salcedochristian -
Impolite sob aren’t you? Truth is, iFixit is there to ensure that Apple’s many mistakes and flawed designs can be fixed or somehow overcome.
Chandra Coomaraswamy -
You're entitled and triggered. If you want the junky methodology that's being downvoted here then your way of thinking isn't very logical.
K B Tidwell -
If you like the junky dongle methodology them your thinking is very Batman utility belt-favorable.
K B Tidwell -
What I can easily learn about is Apple’s goal to run all of its operations on 100 percent renewable energy and reduce their carbon footprint this way, and where they are in that process year over year. I just have to check their website. I would be interested to read about iFixit’s efforts and progress in reducing the environmental footprint of its own operations. I can’t seem to find any consistent reporting on iFixit.com about that. Can you help me out?
John Hinkle - Reply
The article isn't trying to compare the environmental impact of Apple versus iFixit. It's pointing out that Ive made heroic statements about how environmental responsibility is a result of good design…then goes on to design wasteful throwaway environmental problems.
K B Tidwell -
Planned obselescence?
Durable goods now expire quicker.
Product support has an end date.
Nuts and bolts no longer hold car bodies together.
Digest plastic. It's in your food.
Humans are a scourge upon earth.
Rivers are dammed.
People are on reservations.
Walls are being built.
You are doomed!
MIC - Reply
Respectfully, you might more honestly say that YOU feel doomed, but if you were truly honest with yourself and everyone else, you wouldn’t be crying from your nihilistic soapbox, you’d be bearing the weight of it—that infernal lie—along with every gift and curse given to you at birth, so as to make the world better for those you love. If you say that we’re doomed to live, then the corollary is that you’re gonna tend to want to die; yet, the reverse is so much better than giving up then spouting off invective that only speaks to your inevitable inner brokenness and disenfranchisement, which is but a byproduct of a hard life. It is better to be grateful for your successful ancestral genes and the gift of all life in and around you, and to strive to live so that your apparently doomed life has such an awesome meaning to those who actually care about you that you will do whatever you can manage to pass on your valued legacy instead of calling out dread and disfunction.
Brandon Leudke -
I have an iPhone 8, which I bought after consulting with the Apple staff. I was going to buy an iPhone !0 but they all recommended the iPhone 8, so that’s what I bought last year. I’ve had nothing but trouble with it and have already replaced it once. I’m soon to replace it again, because it’s always crashing. That never ever happened before. Not to mention the computer problems. What’s going on with Apple? I’ve been a loyal customer since the 80’s but I’m about to give up.
kristinnow - Reply
Yep! I’d like to give up too, but the options…, and my invested/sunken cost. What to do??
Mark Bailey -
Martin Bergstrom -
I definitely agree with the sentiment and spirit behind this article. One of the challenges with this debate is covering all the variables for a company like Apple. Making beautiful disposable products is what Apple is relying on for stock-pumping growth. iMacs will continue their long march toward becoming iPads with feet. MacBooks will shrivel down to the size of pocket folders. It’s all about the unit sales at this point and making repairable things goes directly against that goal.
Paul T. - Reply
As I have been servicing, repairing and attempting to upgrade Mac computers for 15 years, I have seen the decline in what I considered the most well designed aspects of them. Namely, upgradability ( remember powermacs?) Design functionality and relative green credentials . Macs have evolved to glued together boxes, with a logic board full of surface mounted integrated boards and chips, including storage and memory boards. Repair costs are so high, that many users just buy another new one, the old machine being often buried or burnt. The rare metals inside the Macs going that way too, then to be replaced by underpaid people risking their health. It is a travesty - the same as many other manufacturers sure, but Apple could and should have done so much better from such excellent beginnings from Jobs and Ive.
chris haines - Reply
Serviceability? Microsize nonstandard screws? Need to separate home button from screen? Need to separate camera and proximity sensor in some parts? Make replacement parts that make sense. All phones should use Phillips scews, even to remove the cover. None of this pentalobe nonsense and heat gun nonsense, And please make the home button reprogrammable when you remove the screen.
Abraham - Reply
So can we anticipate that Apple will abandon its senseless quest to manufacture the world’s first two-dimensional laptop? Me, I don’t give a crap how it LOOKS, I care how it WORKS. Form used to follow function. Now, function seems to be far down the list.
Sell me what Jobs called “garbage.” Make it functional, repairable, and upgradeable. It doesn’t need to look like a giant cheese grater or a slim, lick-worthy slab of aluminum. Above all, don’t design it to be obsolete on the date of its introduction as the software side of the house “designs” new operating systems and system apps that require huge increases in storage space and fatally cripple the latest and greatest hardware I bought last week.
This is a COMPUTER, %#*!^@, not a piece of abstract art.
jimcarroll - Reply
My wife, my father in law and I have had 2 iMacs , 2 MacBook Pros and an Apple laptop from 2002 whose name I don’t remember. Everyone of them has had problems with broken power cords. An iMac and MacBook Pro with failed hard drives, a broken hinge on the 2002 laptop in its early years, 2 failed keyboards, a failed dvd drive on one iMac .
I had a 1999 Dell desktop that lasted until 2012 with it’s original hard drive and cd drive. It was still working when I gave it away.
M Daflos - Reply
I’m not sure it’s fair to pin so much blame on Jony. To his credit Jony has left Apple (hopefully in disgust) after the very non-development, non-engineering people Steve Jobs warned about years ago went and took over the company.
All Jony could do was offer his design expertise. He had nothing to do with any of the following:
- Design constraints enforced by upper management;
- Engineering policies enforced by upper management;
- Apple’s proven track record of human labour exploitation;
- On an operational level, all efforts implemented to cut corners on build quality by the use of inferior materials or processes;
- On an operational level, all efforts implemented to meet production quotas at the cost of build quality.
By leaving Apple and starting his own design firm, Jony is making a statement about his relationship to Apple. He is effectively saying, “I will continue to work with Apple as a designer, but I want to distance myself from their anti-consumer policies and procedures as much as possible.”
Troy - Reply
Good points about constraints placed on Ive by management. And that’s why Apple is DONE with him. I expect his input into Apple products will now decline rapidly to near zero.
Matt Edger -
What about the iMac - if you want a new computer you have to get rid of the whole thing monitor and all - I still use an original mac cinema display with a series of now un upgradeable mac mini’s
scnorman - Reply
Three cheers for the Dieter Rams Citromatic juicer - I’ve got two and both still working beautifully. And thanks to iFixit - I’ve a slew of Apple products still going strong due to their repair guides.
ajboyce - Reply
Jony and Steve share equal credit and blame for the past decade of Apple’s art-tech. Love it or hate it (or both), we wouldn’t even be talking about Apple if it weren’t for the creative and technical achievements that these two talented individuals birthed. Now that the parents of the modern Apple have left, it will be interesting to see in which direction its new creators and leaders take it. For me, the story of Jobs and Ives was wonderfully fascinating. And I’m glad I was there to experience it all, in the moment.
Narq - Reply
Great article. imho, Ive was overrated as a designer. He has left so many flawed and impractical designs in his wake … no matter how pretty they might be. He certainly never reached the level of Rams and many other designers. He is too full of himself, too certain that his way is the only way and too neglectful of having respect for the user and environment. It was his good fortune to be at Apple when Jobs returned. There are many far better designers around with true integrity and enduring merit evident in their work.
Chandra Coomaraswamy - Reply
Steve Jobs said "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." The most recent releases from Apple don't work well because they forgot this last part, particularly when it comes to computers. As much as they wish it were otherwise, Apple does not exist in a vacuum; their devices need to work with others' devices and systems. The original iMac having USB worked because Jobs saw that's where the industry was going anyway. It's been a couple years now, how many affordable usb-c drives, displays, and other peripherals do you see floating around?
Jeff - Reply
Apple’s current “design” decisions are predicated not only on lowering per unit cost, but on banishing any notion of allowing the buyer to utilize “third party” parts as replacements and/or upgrades. The gluing and soldering in key components is a deliberate business strategy of Apple Inc. to maximize revenue - especially regarding flash media. Apple’s “bean counters” realized that they were leaving a good chunk of potential revenue on the table by allowing their consumers to buy the base models of many of their products , and then upgrade these flash based parts themselves, thereby denying Apple that very lucrative revenue stream.
From around late 2012 onward, Apple decided that they would “design” away any possible paths for the user to be able to install their own flash memory upgrades. From the first soldiered on 2013-14 MacMini’s and Macbook Pro’s on, only Apple was going to profit with OEM upgrading - even going so far as to get Samsung to “design” in proprietary connectors for their blade SSD’s,
Mac Karma - Reply
I’ve been waiting for Apple to pull their head out of Jony Ive’s ass for over a decade.
Thank the gods…now that he’s leaving, they may finally have the wherewithal to extract it.
beebs - Reply
Audio jack? What audio jack? Extra disk drive? It’s just an oversized dongle. Docks? Another oversized dongle. Need a CD drive? Another large dongle. Upgrade the RAM? Fugedaboutit. Open the lid too far? Snap goes the weasel, er… cable. Send a perfectly usable chassis, screen and keyboard to the dump because it’s not upgradeable? This is the epitome of environmental responsibility, … not. Try to setup a new mac by restoring from backup without an internet connection? Impossible.
And let’s not mention the security and privacy risks of “obsolete” stuff that never gets an update.
My Mac Pro looke like a mama goose with a bunch of ducklings in tow. And they call this “good” design because the liitle trash can looks beautiful until it’s setup and ready to use. Advertising hype can distract from the obvious issues but they become self-evident once you get down to business.
essin - Reply
Ive is only leaving physically. He’ll still do work for Apple. You know, like employees who quit and come back next week as cosultants for twice the pay? If Apple had been unhappy with his unreliable, unrepairable, beautiful gadgets they would have gotten rid of him a while ago. But Apple fully supports the concept of unreliable, unrepairable beautiful gadgets. I’ve always viewed Apple as the industrial poster child for superficiality.
dmarois - Reply
Apple sucks, overpriced POS, all of their products. Blatant disregard for industry standards, making maintenance and connectivity to other devices nearly impossible.
CRAPPLE, preferred product for folks everywhere with more dollars than sense, not playing well with others since 1976.
David Wyatt - Reply
Like often is the case your criticism of Apple is a bit one sided. I do think there are and has been great products from Apple. The Mac Pro’s from 2010 for example, which is a computer I use as my main today upgraded with USB 3.1 via a PCIe card, NVMe SSD, GTX 1070 graphics and 32 GB of RAM. Not a bad product at all.
Still, they also have some products that I would not buy myself, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have any value for other people.
Martin Bergstrom -
My first Apple computer was an Apple ][+ to be followed by two Apple ][gss, six expandability slots plus a memory expansion slot. One could actually put a different computer on a PC board (remember CP/M) into one of those slots and have a second computer in the one case. I added a better keyboard and all kinds of other stuff via those six slots. I reprogrammed the keyboard chip to include my beloved Dvorak key configuration without dumping the standard Qwerty. And on and on. Where did all that flexibility go? More and more Apple is forcing users to do things Apple’s way and not the way they would prefer. No, my iPhone SE, MBP 2015 and Mac Mini 2012 with High Sierra is the end of the line for me unless Apple makes earth shattering changes quick smart. Even so with the MBP I had to spend a extra $60 to get an adaptor for an Ethernet port. Much of this loss is indeed due to Ive’s work though there’s plenty of blame to go around for Jobs as well. The original Jobs Wozniak dream is truly dead. RIP
one2go - Reply
Same here. 2012 Cheese Grater pimped out to the max, Mid-2012 “Unicorn” 15” MacBook Pro (I got ports, baby…), iPhone SE, along with two original iPads (one to write on and one to serve eye-candy). These run everything I need to run. Period. Unless Apple truly does something “groundbreaking” again, I’m keepin’ put.
beebs -
Other than their respective design esthetic, I don’t think it is fair to compare Ive and Rams. I don’t recall a citrus juicer ever needing a RAM upgrade, nor a vinyl record player requiring a motherboard replacement to keep up with faster throughput requirements. How about an analog desk phone that had to be replaced every 3 years to keep up with system-wide voltage increases? You’re contrasting the technical requirements of different eras.
Every design decision, both large and small, that Jony Ive made was hugely magnified undergoing the demands of a trillion-dollar operation. Not a job I would want to have on my shoulders.
Looking at this another way - I hate to throw a perfectly usable toothbrush in the recycling bin after only three months, but that’s what my dentist says I should do - is that a ‘user-repairable’ item? Maybe we should view the AirPods the same way … at $6.67 a month, a two-year run might be about right for tiny ear-computers that accumulate bio-crud. (I do upgrade & repair when possible!)
Bob Laughton - Reply
The visual and functional design of a product is one thing - the decision to make it easily serviceable is another and is a decision usually outside the control of the designer. Ives may not be responsible for Apple’s decision to make it difficult to change batteries or make screens easily replaceable.
David Walker - Reply
Lets not forget apples plummet is really since Jobs passed away and left the “leadership” to Tim Cook to drive it into the ground. I cant help feeling given Jobs arrogance if he couldnt run apple nobody would run apple. So selected Cook as his successor as he knew he could not possibly run Apple and the company would drive its self into the ground with the delusional Cook firmly grasping the wheel.
Bernie - Reply
May be… Wnyway, my MBP - first unibody is still able to work hard. There is full memmpry and SSD + Hibrid HDD. For office kind of work I don’t see reason to upgrade it. The only issue is battery - now same “compatibile” . How long it is witj me… 11 years !
Robert - Reply
It’s not time for crapple to refocus, it’s time for crapple to die.
iToddlers BTFO
Bumlom - Reply
There are Braun juicers and razors and furniture from Rams’ time still usable today, but we won’t be able to say the same in twenty years about today’s MacBooks or AirPods. That’s a shame. Apple can do better.
Not sure comparing juicers, razors and furniture to MacBooks and AirPods is fair comparison when it comes to longevity.
Are Apple worse than other tech companies in this regard? I mean computer tech evolve and get obsolete more rapidly than razors and furniture, that’s just the way the technology progress. I know some speak of planned obsolescence, but that usually seem to come from people having little insight into how tech companies prioritise their business and how complex it is producing the devices and software that make up what we call Information Technology.
Martin Bergstrom - Reply
I've long failed to see the “genius" in his work. A very limited design language and an awful lot of failures that are overlooked by those with short memories. And just think of the billion gadgets that are soon to be worthless waste because of his disposable design philosophy.
The world is better off now with his departure.
mail - Reply
Apple could easily retain the thinness and still have removable drives and memory if they were attached in line with the main board, off the side as it were, rather than in sockets mounted on the surface of the main board. Then again, no one really asked for thin. They would much prefer more ports, and more battery life. Everyone asked for thin, never.
Charlie Nancarrow - Reply